Podcast host Joe Rogan has faced a storm of controversy over his interviews about COVID-19, with musicians such as Neil Young and Joni Mitchell abandoning Spotify in protest at the site hosting his show.
Rogan, who regularly attracts 11 million listeners, has remained defiant, insisting that he is contributing to the debate.
Two interviews in particular have sparked anger – one with Dr Robert Malone on December 31, and one with Dr Peter McCullough on December 13.
Both made controversial claims – some of them based on facts, others less verifiable.
Malone, who is one of the pioneers of mRNA vaccines, said official COVID figures are not to be trusted because hospitals get bonuses if patients have the virus and that the government was ‘out of control’ and suppressing data.
McCullough, who vice chief of internal medicine at Baylor University Medical Center, claimed the pandemic was deliberately planned, and that the vaccines were killing thousands of people.
Rogan’s podcast regularly attracts 11 million listeners
Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, who have a $25 million deal with Spotify, said they were concerned about Rogan’s podcast
On January 10, more than 250 doctors signed an open letter to Spotify, entitled: ‘A call from the global scientific and medical communities to implement a misinformation policy.’
‘By allowing the propagation of false and societally harmful assertions, Spotify is enabling its hosted media to damage public trust in scientific research and sow doubt in the credibility of data-driven guidance offered by medical professionals,’ they said.
They point out that Rogan’s average listener was 24, and his vaccine skepticism was dangerous: unvaccinated 12- to 34-year-olds are 12 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID than those who are fully vaccinated.
‘This is not only a scientific or medical concern; it is a sociological issue of devastating proportions and Spotify is responsible for allowing this activity to thrive on its platform,’ they said.
Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, who have signed a $25 million deal with Spotify, have expressed their ‘concern’ at Rogan’s interviews.
Yet few people have listened to the full six hours of broadcasting.
Here we summarize the key points of debate.
Dr Robert Malone appeared on Rogan’s podcast on December 31, speaking for three hours
Dr Robert Malone, 62, appeared on the podcast on New Year’s Eve.
He is a California-born doctor who pioneered mRNA vaccines. He describes himself as a carpenter and farmhand from California, who began to study science and became a pioneer in mRNA vaccine technology.
He also founded a company contracted by the U.S. government in 2016 to assist in the development of a treatment for the Zika virus.
‘I’m kind of a pretty deep insider, in terms of the government,’ he told Rogan, saying he knew Dr Anthony Fauci personally.
‘I’m at a stage at 62 years old – I’ve got a farm it’s almost paid off, I raise horses, I love my wife, you know I’ve been married a long time, my kids are both married, I got grandkids – you know, I don’t need this.
‘There’s this claim I’m doing all this because I seek attention – trust me, this is not a fun thing to be doing at this stage.’
The chairman of the board of Thomson Reuters is also on the board of Pfizer
Malone told Rogan that he was banned from LinkedIn before being banned from Twitter, because he tweeted a LinkedIn post, noting that the chairman of the board of Thomson Reuters is also on the board of Pfizer.
‘And I simply wrote: does this look like a conflict of interest to you?’ Malone said.
Malone is incorrect.
The chairman of the board of Thomson Reuters is David Thomson, who is not on Pfizer’s 12-person board.
James C. Smith, the chair of the Thomson Reuters Foundation – a charity devoted to supporting the media – is, however, on Pfizer’s board, and Smith was chief executive of Thomson Reuters until his retirement in February 2020.
Malone said: ‘They are the fact-checker of Twitter; now they’re integrated. So it’s Thomson Reuters making the decision, which has connections to Pfizer, about what information will be allowed to be discussed on Twitter.’
500,000 excess deaths in U.S. due to a lack of early intervention
Malone claimed that half-a-million excess deaths were caused because the U.S. government was dismissing certain drugs out of hand, without testing them.
‘It’s not just Ivermectin, its hydroxychloroquine,’ Malone told Rogan.
‘And just to put a marker on that, there are good modeling studies that probably half-a-million excess deaths have happened in the United States through the intentional blockade of early treatment by the U.S. government.’
Malone said that ‘there was some sort of a concerted effort to suppress the use of hydroxychloroquine.’
On June 15, 2020, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) revoked the emergency authorization of hydroxychloroquine, finding it did not work.
‘We made this determination based on recent results from a large, randomized clinical trial in hospitalized patients that found these medicines showed no benefit for decreasing the likelihood of death or speeding recovery,’ they said.
On July 1, 2020, the FDA went further, and warned that there were serious side effects reported when hydroxychloroquine was used to treat COVID.
‘This includes reports of serious heart rhythm problems and other safety issues, including blood and lymph system disorders, kidney injuries, and liver problems and failure,’ they said.
Yet Malone insisted the FDA was wrong, and the drug did work.
He said there were many ‘unknowns’ and he could not explain the FDA’s decision.
‘I was the guy that first acquired (hydroxychloroquine) because I had Chinese connections,’ Malone told Rogan.
‘The Chinese protocol for treating this virus.
‘I got it in late February and I sent it in to my buddies at the CIA and at DTRA, at the assistant secretary for preparedness and response.’
He said that the government statements that there was not enough information was ‘just patently false’.
He added: ‘So, what is the motivation?
‘You’re right. None of this makes sense. You know, the classic guidance is follow the money.’
Malone said ‘there is clearly a concerted effort on the part of multiple players in the pharmaceutical industry in concordance with the federal government to kill Ivermectin as a potential alternative early treatment strategy.’
He added: ‘It’s fairly cheap because it’s easy to make and you know we can get Ivermectin in bulk at less than a penny a dose.’
WebMD states that the average cost for 20 tablets of generic Ivermectin at 3mg dosage is $95.99, but the tablets can be bought for $22 with coupons.
Malone is absolutely correct that price gauging by pharmaceutical companies is of great concern.
In October, it emerged that molnupiravir, the new medicine being hailed as a ‘huge advance’ in the treatment of COVID-19, costs $17.74 to produce – yet Merck is charging the U.S. government $712 for the same amount of medicine, or 40 times the price.
Pfizer’s COVID drug, Paxlovid, has been sold to the U.S. government at $530 for a course of treatment.
Uttar Pradesh has ‘crushed’ COVID but Biden has forced them to keep quiet about how
Malone claimed that the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh had found a way of handling the pandemic – but had agreed to keep quiet about how.
The state in northern India encompasses the eastern suburbs of Delhi and the cities of Lucknow, Agra and Kanpur, and runs up to the border with Nepal. It is home to 204 million people, making it the most populous state in India.
‘The observation is there was a decision made, when the virus was just ripping through Uttar Pradesh.
‘It has almost the same population as the United States, it’s huge, dense, urban, poor – all the characteristics of the stereotypes of the Indian countryside.
‘The virus is just ripping through there and causing all kinds of death and disease, and the decision was made out of desperation in that province to deploy early treatments as packages widely throughout the province.’
Malone claimed the ‘packages’ included a number of different drugs, and the rumor was that ivermectin was among them.
Malone further said there was an agreement between Joe Biden and the Indian prime minister, Narendra Modi, not to reveal what was in the packages.
‘There was a specific visit of Biden to Modi, and a decision was made in the Indian government not to disclose the contents of those packages that were being deployed,’ Malone said.
Biden and Modi did meet at the White House in September 2021.
Uttar Pradesh’s COVID deaths peaked in May 2021, with 328 reported in one day.
Since then, the death toll has dramatically fallen, according to government data – although there has been a spike around the beginning of the year.
At present, around 50 people a day are dying in Uttar Pradesh, versus around 2,500 a day at present in the U.S.
President Joe Biden (right) meets with Prime Minister Narendra Modi (left) in the Oval Office on September 24
Taking the vaccine after having COVID can be bad for you
Malone told Rogan: ‘What we do know for sure, well documented: if you’ve got prior COVID and natural immunity you have a higher risk of adverse events from the jab.’
Malone had COVID in February 2020, and then when the vaccine became available took two doses of Moderna.
He said he was left with ‘irregularities of heartbeat, incredible hypertension, pot syndrome, narcolepsy, and restless leg syndrome.’
Malone claimed that there were ‘over 140 studies that document that natural immunity is superior to vaccine-induced immunity,’ adding: ‘Oh, by the way, as a vaccinologist and an immunologist I wouldn’t expect anything different.’
There certainly are studies that show natural immunity to be stronger against COVID than vaccines – in particular, an Israeli study from August 2021, which looked at 779,000 people. But it is yet to be peer reviewed.
In November 2021, The Lancet published a comment piece entitled: ‘Protective immunity after recovery from SARS-CoV-2 infection’.
The authors wrote: ‘Several studies have found that people who recovered from COVID-19 and tested seropositive for anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies have low rates of SARS-CoV-2 reinfection.’
But, they cautioned: ‘There are still looming questions surrounding the strength and duration of such protection compared with that from vaccination.’
Malone said he was ‘aghast’ by the CDC recommending vaccines for those who had already been infected, saying they based their recommendation on ‘a very small study with intrinsic bias all over the place’.
Malone did not specify which study he was referring to, but a September 2021 CDC study, which found that previous infection was no guarantee of immunity, only involved 72 patients.
A November 2021 study involved 201,269 patients, and found that unvaccinated people with a previous infection were 5.49 times more likely to test positive for COVID than vaccinated people.
Fauci tried to destroy eminent scientists who opposed lockdown
Malone, who says he knows Fauci personally, laughed off the authority of the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID).
‘If the CDC says the world is flat, then the world is flat and there will be no discussion about whether or not the world is flat,’ he said.
‘So whatever the CDC or Tony Fauci or Tedros (head of the WHO) says is truth by definition.’
Malone mentioned Fauci’s opposition to the Great Barrington Declaration – an October 2020 proposal by from three scientists, funded by the American Institute for Economic Research, that healthy people be allowed to live their normal lives, despite the pandemic.
They argued that the lockdowns were more harmful to the general population than beneficial, and only vulnerable people should be in isolation.
Fauci and the head of the National Institute of Health (NIH) colluded on a way to discredit the alternative plan to deal with COVID, released emails reveal.
The emails show Fauci and Francis Collins attempting to coordinate a ‘devastating takedown’ of the Great Barrington Declaration.
AIER, a libertarian think tank, sponsored the declaration, which largely abandons lockdowns in favor of a herd immunity strategy that allows life to return to normal.
In an October 8 email from Collins to Fauci, the head of the NIH calls the GBD the work of ‘three fringe epidemiologists’ that ‘seems to be getting a lot of attention.’
Collins adds that ‘there needs to be a quick and devastating published takedown of its premises. I don’t see anything like that online yet – is it underway?’
Later in the day, Fauci sends Collins a Wired op-ed that refutes the notion of herd immunity stopping the pandemic.
Collins then sends Fauci an op-ed in The Nation also trashing the GBD.
A few days later, Collins emails Fauci a Washington Post op-ed he’s quoted in headlined ‘Proposal to hasten herd immunity to the coronavirus grabs White House attention but appalls top scientists.’
Collins – working under former President Donald Trump at the time – said ‘my quotes are accurate but will not be appreciated in the [White House].’
Fauci responds: ‘They are too busy with other things to worry about this. What you said was entirely correct.’
An email from NIH Director Francis Collins telling Anthony Fauci that there needed to be a ‘devastating published take down’ of the Great Barrington Declaration
Later in the day, Fauci sends along a piece from wired that Fauci said ‘debunks this theory,’ which relies heavily on ending lockdowns and herd immunity
Later, Gregg Gonsalves – the writer of The Nation op-ed – sends Collins an email thanking him with a subject line that includes saying legendary AIDS activist Larry Kramer ‘would be proud.’
Collins responds with a smiley face.
The GBD – authored by previous DailyMail.com contributor Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford University, Sunetra Gupta of the University of Oxford and Martin Kulldorff of Harvard University, calls for individuals at significantly lower risk of dying from COVID-19 – as well as those at higher risk who so wish – to be allowed ‘to resume their normal lives.’
That would mean allowing people in low risk groups to go to offices, hang out in bars and restaurants and go to sporting and entertainment events.
The centerpiece of the declaration, according to Dr. Bhattacharya, is a call for increased focused protection of the vulnerable older population, who are more than a thousand times more likely to die from COVID infection than the young.
The declaration makes no mention of social distancing, masks, tracing, or long-term Covid cases but suggests that increased infection of those at lower risks would build herd immunity.
Bhattacharya tweeted in response to the emails: ‘So now I know what it feels like to be the subject of a propaganda attack by my own government. Discussion and engagement would have been a better path.’
Malone told Rogan: ‘They came out with a specific statement that these lockdowns were going to cause more harm than help, which was contrary to the messaging that was being put out by Tony.
‘So Tony decided that they had to be destroyed.’
Hospitals get COVID bonus, therefore figures for death tolls are suspicious
Malone said that it was impossible to trust the U.S. death rate from COVID, because hospitals were incentivized to declare a death as being from COVID rather than a car crash or gunshot.
‘What we see is this explosion of vaccine-associated deaths, and to kind of pick that apart, people say: you know, well, if you had a car accident or a bullet to the head and you went to the hospital and they tested you with a PCR test that’s non-specific and they ran it up to 42 cycles and they said oh look there’s the virus – and by the way they have a financial incentive to do that.’
Malone added: ‘I’m not a hospital administrator, but the numbers are quite large.
‘There’s something like a three thousand dollar basically death benefit to a hospital if it can be claimed to be COVID.
‘There’s a financial incentive to call somebody COVID positive.
‘The CDC made a determination in year one – this is why all of our baseline data is junk.’
Scott Jensen, a Republican senator for Minnesota – who is also a physician – said that there were significant financial benefits in his district for having a COVID case.
In April 2020, he said: ‘Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate.
‘Why? Because if it’s a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for – if they’re Medicare – typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000.
‘But if it’s COVID-19 pneumonia, then it’s $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000.’
USA Today fact-checked Jensen’s claim, and found it to be accurate.
Hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it’s considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test.
They are paid three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator, to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases.
Rogan asked Malone: ‘It really is true that if someone has a gunshot wound and they’re dying of that gunshot wound and you check them for COVID and if they’re COVID positive and they die they marked it off as a COVID death?’
Malone replied: ‘That is by definition from the CDC, that was a decision that was made early on.’
There have been isolated reports of deaths being initially misclassified, but no evidence of widespread falsification of data, as claimed by Malone.
Girl in Pfizer study ended up in wheelchair: Safety figures are suspicious
Malone referenced the case of Maddie de Garay, a 12-year-old girl from Cincinnati whose mother claims that she was left paralyzed after taking the Pfizer vaccination.
‘She was totally fine before this. She did the right thing, tried to help everybody else, and they’re not helping her,’ Maddie’s mother, Stephanie de Garay, said.
Maddie de Garay is seen after a COVID vaccination trial, which her mother says left her needing a feeding tube
She told Tucker Carlson: ‘The only diagnosis we’ve gotten for her is that it’s conversion disorder or functional neurologic symptom disorder, and they are blaming it on anxiety.
‘Ironically, she did not have anxiety before the vaccine.’
De Garay explained that after receiving the second coronavirus vaccine dose, her daughter started developing severe abdominal and chest pains.
Maddie described the severity of the pain to her mother as ‘it feels like my heart is being ripped out through my neck,’ and she now needs a feeding tube to eat.
Her symptoms have not been explained by Pfizer.
Tricks that can be played with data
‘People like me that do clinical research for a living, we get drummed into our head bioethics on a regular basis,’ Malone told Rogan.
He claimed that, in Texas, data from a Pfizer study was manipulated, ‘at the level of checking the data and reconciling the data and deciding which things go into the database and which things don’t go into the database and whether or not somebody had an adverse event after shot one and then they’re dropped because they won’t take shot two.’
Malone was referring to a November 2021 report in The British Medical Journal, in which a regional director who was employed at the research organization Ventavia Research Group claimed the company falsified data, unblinded patients, employed inadequately trained vaccinators, and was slow to follow up on adverse events reported in Pfizer’s pivotal phase III trial.
Brook Jackson worked at Ventavia for two weeks and was fired after raising her concerns with the FDA.
Brook Jackson blew the whistle on concerning practices at a Texas clinic
Jackson, who was at their Texas site in September 2020, told the BMJ she repeatedly informed her superiors of poor laboratory management, patient safety concerns, and data integrity issues.
The journal said Jackson was a trained clinical trial auditor who previously held a director of operations position and came to Ventavia with more than 15 years’ experience in clinical research coordination and management.
Ventavia says that Jackson’s allegations ‘were investigated and determined to be unsubstantiated’ and that it takes ‘research compliance, data integrity, and participant safety very seriously and we stand behind our work supporting the development of life-saving vaccines.’
The Texas trials run by Ventavia were just three of more than 150 sites that Pfizer ran around the world, which in total enlisted over 40,000 patients
Pfizer said that after a tip-off about the Texas site ‘we conducted a thorough investigation [and] actions were taken to correct and remediate where necessary.’
The company said that the investigation ‘did not identify any issues or concerns that would invalidate the data or jeopardize the integrity of the study.’
Jackson remains adamant that the research was faulty.
Vaccines can alter the menstrual cycle and cause myocarditis in boys
Rogan asked Malone about myocarditis – inflammation of the heart muscle – and whether it was true that ‘one in a thousand people have adverse events and including myocarditis, if myocarditis that requires hospitalization, it’s one in 2,700.’
Malone replied: ‘In boys.’
In October, a large analysis published in the New England Journal of Medicine did find that males between 16 and 29 years of age have an increased risk of developing heart problems after receiving a second dose of coronavirus vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNtech or Moderna.
For every million vaccinated boys ages 12 to 17, the shots might cause a maximum of 70 myocarditis cases, but would prevent 5,700 infections, 215 hospitalizations and two deaths, the agency has estimated.
Malone also claimed that the vaccine could alter the menstrual cycle – saying there had been ‘a huge number of dysmenorrhea (severe cramps) and metrorrhagia’ – a condition when your period lasts more than seven days or you have spotting between periods.
There have been widespread reports of changes to the menstrual cycle, and further research is underway.
Multiple jabs increase the likelihood of infection
Malone said that he was concerned that an excessive number of vaccinations could actually harm the immune system.
‘You give a three-year-old a hammer and everything becomes a nail,’ Malone told Rogan.
‘That’s kind of a simple way of saying people that aren’t well trained, given a powerful technology or tool, will abuse it and overuse it.
‘In this case there’s multiple reasons not to do the multiple jabs.’
He said that multiple vaccines would affect the t-cells, and hamper the body’s ability to fight off viruses.
Malone added that vaccines could give a false sense of security, explaining: ‘They feel like they’re Superman – they’ve got a shield, right, and so they engage in more risky behaviors.’
Malone is correct that the science is evolving, but it remains a matter of debate.
What is clear is that childhood vaccinations save lives.
The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that 2–3 million lives are saved each year by current immunization programs.
The Government is acting illegally
Malone was scathing about Biden’s warning of a ‘winter of death for the unvaccinated’.
‘The political genius behind that should be taken out behind the woodshed and given a good whooping, because that was just horrible political messaging,’ Malone said.
He continued: ‘Our government is out of control on this and they are lawless.
‘They completely disregard bioethics. They completely disregard the Federal common rule. They have broken all the rules that I know of that I’ve been trained on for years and years and years.
‘These mandates of an experimental vaccine are explicitly illegal. They are explicitly inconsistent with the Nuremberg Code. They’re explicitly inconsistent with the Belmont Report.
‘They are flat out illegal and they don’t care.
‘And the only thing standing between us and it’s too late for many of our colleagues.
‘Hopefully we’re going to be able to stop them before they take our kids.’
Malone is incorrect that experimental vaccines are being mandated.
Requiring COVID-19 vaccination does not violate the Nuremberg Code because the vaccines aren’t experimental. All the vaccines approved for emergency use in the United States have already gone through clinical trials.
The law says nothing about a required two-year evaluation period for vaccines approved for emergency use, as widely suggested on social media.
While there is a legal gray area for mandating vaccines authorized for emergency use, businesses, employers and state governments generally have the power to require vaccination, experts say.
Malone went further, saying there were ‘incentives for the government to maintain the state of emergency’.
Claims society has been hypnotized like in 1940s Germany
Malone claimed that U.S. society was ‘hypnotized’ and no longer able to think for itself.
‘A third of the population is basically being hypnotized and totally wrapped up in whatever Tony Fauci in the mainstream media feeds them, whatever CNN tells them is true,’ he said.
He referenced ‘what the heck happened in Germany in the 20s and 30s – you know, very intelligent, highly educated population, and they went barking mad.
‘And how did that happen? The answer is mass formation psychosis.
‘When you have a society that has become decoupled from each other and has free-floating anxiety in a sense that things don’t make sense, we can’t understand it, and then their attention gets focused by a leader or series of events on one small point, just like hypnosis, they literally become hypnotized and can be led anywhere.’
He said people had been brainwashed to follow a leader, and follow that person ‘through hell’.
‘It doesn’t matter whether they lie to them or whatever.
‘The data are irrelevant, and furthermore anybody who questions that narrative is to be immediately attacked – they are the other.
‘This is central to mass formation psychosis and this is what has happened we had all those conditions.’
Psychology experts say there is no support for the ‘psychosis’ theory described by Malone.
Fauci is seen speaking alongside Joe Biden in the White House
‘To my knowledge, there’s no evidence whatsoever for this concept,’ said Jay Van Bavel, an assistant professor of psychology and neural science at New York University who recently co-authored a book on group identities.
Van Bavel said he had never encountered the phrase ‘mass formation psychosis’ in his years of research, nor could he find it in any peer-reviewed literature.
‘The concept has no academic credibility,’ Stephen Reicher, a social psychology professor at the University of St Andrews in the U.K., wrote in an email to The Associated Press.
The description of ‘mass formation psychosis’ offered by Malone resembles discredited concepts, such as ‘mob mentality’ and ‘group mind,’ according to John Drury, a social psychologist at the University of Sussex in the U.K. who studies collective behavior.
The ideas suggest that ‘when people form part of a psychological crowd they lose their identities and their self-control; they become suggestible, and primitive instinctive impulses predominate,’ he said in an email.
That notion has been discredited by decades of research on crowd behavior, Drury said.
‘No respectable psychologist agrees with these ideas now,’ he said.
Vaccine could be causing health issues in adults similar to children
Malone said he suspected that some of the effects of the vaccine reported in children were happening to adults too.
‘Why are children more susceptible to these adverse events? I think they’re not,’ Malone said.
‘I think the problem is that we’re seeing it in the kids, but it’s present in the adult population also.
‘I think there is a significant reporting bias going on against reporting adult vaccine injury.’
When high-performing adults died, he asked: ‘Is it because they’ve been infected or they because they’ve been jabbed?’
There is no data to support his assertion that the vaccine is killing more adults than it saves.
Dr Peter McCullough spoke to Rogan on December 13 for his podcast, initiating the backlash
On December 13, Rogan spoke to Dr Peter McCullough, 59, a cardiologist based in Dallas, Texas.
McCullough has become one of the most high-profile challengers to COVID-19 orthodoxy promoted by the mainstream scientific community.
‘When COVID hit, I really dropped everything to put all of my academic efforts on this because I saw it as an all hands on deck situation,’ he told Rogan, saying he was a trained epidemiologist.
Claimed hydroxy factories were burned down and mercenaries destroyed the product
McCullough said that, because Donald Trump had promoted hydroxychloroquine, the scientific community was quick to rubbish it, out of spite.
He said that the FDA was ‘colluding to block hydroxychloroquine coming out of the stockpile in Marseille, France.’
‘Do you know the second largest producer of hydroxychloroquine was a plant was mysteriously burned down outside of Taipei?’ McCullough claimed.
‘It was extraordinary what was going on. Doctors from Africa were telling us that there were some type of mercenary people rating the pharmacies at night and burning the hydroxychloroquine.’
On December 21, 2020 there was an explosion at the factory in Taipei, which killed a Filipino worker.
Social media conspiracy theorists were swift to blame arsonists, but the company said there was no evidence of a deliberate fire.
A WHO panel strongly advised against using hydroxychloroquine to prevent COVID-19 on March 2, 2021.
By that point, Taiwan had already purchased 15 million doses, and in April 2021 began giving it out for free for its designated use – treating rheumatoid arthritis and lupus.
Hydroxychloroquine was ‘demonized’ by the scientific community
McCullough claimed that there were 300 completed studies with hydroxychloroquine and 32 early treatment studies, and that the drug has ‘an effect size or an efficacy early in treatment of about 64 percent’.
He added: ‘Its toxicity profile is well understood.
‘Hydroxychloroquine, like Ivermectin and the other drugs, are already FDA approved.’
The pro-hydroxychloroquine website, C19HCQ, says that there have so far been 307 studies completed.
The usefulness of the drug remains a subject of debate, and the CDC still states that it is not recommended for COVID.
Lancet published fraudulent paper on hydroxychloroquine which they retracted
McCullough, who co-edits Reviews in Cardiovascular Medicine, explained that The Lancet published a paper in May 2020, which it was forced to retract – a highly unusual act for the respected journal.
McCullough saw it as part of a campaign against hydroxychloroquine.
‘I saw a trend starting in April, May and June where it became clear that anything we were doing to try to help patients with early treatment was receiving a chill and the chill was coming through academic institutions through the medical literature,’ he told Rogan.
‘I think the capper was in June when there was a fraudulent paper published in Lancet on hydroxychloroquine between Harvard and a company called Surgisphere.
‘And this never happens. Lancet is like the New England Journal Medicine of the World.
‘We check references we check plagiarism. Believe me, it’s a tight world out there.
‘They basically published a fraudulent paper on hydroxychloroquine in Lancet in 2020 around June, and they let it hang up there for two weeks stating that hydroxychloroquine was associated with harm when used in patients with COVID-19.’
The blockbuster Lancet study based on Surgisphere data led to global trials of hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 being halted, because it appeared to show the drug increased deaths.
Significant questions have been asked about the founder and CEO of Surgisphere, Dr Sapan Desai.
Lancet editors said they were ‘reviewing our requirements for data sharing and validation among authors, and data sharing following publication.’
The Trump White House COVID taskforce ‘had good intentions but were incompetent’
McCullough said that Scott Atlas, a radiologist drafted in by Donald Trump as a special coronavirus advisor, claimed the others on the White House taskforce were incompetent.
He said that the team – among them Fauci, head of the NIAID; Dr Deborah Birx; and CDC head Dr Robert Redfield – did not analyze the data and were uninterested in his ideas.
McCullough said: ‘I said, what about the other people on the task force? What about the head of the NIAID? What about the CDC director?
‘He goes, they showed up with nothing.
‘I said, You’ve got to be kidding me. They’re not analyzing any data?
‘He goes, ‘Have you ever seen them come on TV and analyze any studies?’
‘I said, no. He thinks that this is a crisis of academic incompetence.’
Atlas had a famously combative relationship with other members of the taskforce, and promoted a herd immunity theory that was dismissed by others within the scientific community.
He resigned in December 2020, after just four months.
Claims 85 per cent deaths could have been avoided
McCullough told Rogan: ‘I testified in the US Senate, November 19, 2020.
‘I told Americans, under oath, that 50 percent of the lives at that time could have been saved.
‘We were at about 250,000 deaths, based on what I knew.
‘I then testified on March 10, 2021 in the Texas Senate, sworn testimony, I upped that to 85 percent of the deaths could have been avoided.’
McCullough claimed that the combination of drugs he cited – hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin and remdesivir – could have saved lives.
The global health industry disagrees.
An intentional fear campaign to promote mass vaccination
McCullough claimed that there was a deliberate suppression of treatment in a bid to encourage people to get vaccinated.
He did not say why the government would be so keen to embark on a mass vaccination program, and kill hundreds of thousands of its citizens to encourage vaccination.
‘We’ve had a giant loss of life – a giant number, millions and millions of unnecessary hospitalizations,’ McCullough said.
‘And it seemed to me and I’ve told Tucker Carlson and many others, it seems to me early on there was an intentional, very comprehensive suppression of early treatment in order to promote fear, suffering, isolation, hospitalization and death.
‘And it seemed to be completely organized and intentional in order to create acceptance for and then promote mass vaccination.’
Pharmaceutical companies, governments and health experts planned and orchestrated the pandemic
McCullough told Rogan that the pandemic had been planned, taking as evidence pandemic scenarios organized by the Gates Foundation and John Hopkins University.
The brainstorming events were indeed held, because scientists knew it was only a matter of time until a pandemic broke out.
They guessed, correctly, that it would be a virus similar to the MERS and SARS viruses.
The events were held frequently, with public health experts, intelligence experts, transport professionals and business leaders.
The idea was to encourage thought leaders to think about, and prepare for, a possible pandemic.
McCullough told Rogan the planning was a sign that the pandemic was deliberate.
‘If you want to find the evidence that Moderna was working on the vaccine before the virus ever emanated out of the lab; if you wanted to find the collusions and the operations between the Gates Foundation and Gavi and Sepi and Pfizer and Moderna and the vaccine manufacturers and the Wuhan lab and the National Institutes of Health and Ralph Barrack and University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and how all this was organized,’ McCullough said.
‘If you want to see the Johns Hopkins planning seminar called the Spars Pandemic in 2017, where they had a symposium, people showed up. They wrote up their symposium findings. They published this.
‘It says it’s going to be a coronavirus. It’s going to be related to MERS and SARS. It’s going to come over here to the United States. It’s going to shut down cities and frighten people. There’s going to be confusion regarding the drug hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin.
‘And we’re going to utilize all that in order to railroad the population into mass vaccination.
‘It’s laid out in the Johns Hopkins sparse pandemic training seminar. The only thing that got wrong was the year they said it was going to be 2025. Instead, it landed a few years early.’
McCullough is correct that there was planning.
Indeed, Barack Obama’s team left a document for his successor entitled: ‘Playbook for Early Response to High-Consequence Emerging Infectious Disease Threats and Biological Incidents.’
The document is a 69-page National Security Council guidebook developed in 2016 with the goal of assisting leaders ‘in coordinating a complex U.S. Government response to a high-consequence emerging disease threat anywhere in the world.’
It outlined questions to ask, who should be asked to get the answers and what key decisions should be made.
‘Mass formation psychosis’
McCullough, like Malone after him, declared that the U.S. was under a spell, and only ‘about 500 doctors knows what’s going on’.
Like Malone, he referenced the Nazis.
‘Mass psychosis is when there is a groupthink that develops that’s so strong that it leads to something horrific.
‘And the examples are these mass suicides that occur in these religious cults.
‘The example is Nazi Germany. When people walk into gas chambers and we guess these horrific things.’
McCullough claimed there must be ‘prolonged isolation’ and lockdowns, followed by deprivation.
He said there must be the generating of anxiety, and then a solution offered by an authority figure.
Psychologists have debunked McCullough and Malone’s theory as pseudo-science.
Diluted bleach can work to kill virus in mouth
McCullough said that one of the most effective ways of combatting COVID was not hand sanitizer, but spraying a solution made of betadine – an antiseptic used for skin disinfection before and after surgery – and water into the nose.
He also suggested diluting bleach to swab the mouth – something which is strongly advised against.
‘They use sodium hypochlorite, that’s actually dilute bleach,’ he said.
‘Turns out it just takes a few drops of bleach in some household water. That’s for the mouth. We typically don’t use it in the nose, around the eyes.
‘But remember when President Trump mentioned bleach and everybody had a big horse laugh on that? It turns out he just couldn’t articulate.’
He said face masks might serve to ‘filter out a big sneeze’ but were not the answer.
Claims that asymptomatic people can’t infect others
McCullough told Rogan: ‘Somebody can’t walk into a workplace with no symptoms and give the virus to somebody else. It doesn’t happen.’
Asymptomatic people have been proven to infect others.
A CDC model here suggests that 59 percent of all transmission of the virus came from asymptomatic transmission, with 35 percent of those from presymptomatic individuals and 25 percent from those who never develop symptoms.
States that you cannot get infected twice
McCullough said that you cannot catch COVID twice – and was challenged by Rogan, who said he had a friend who was infected twice.
‘What you have, is you have a friend who thinks he had it twice,’ said McCullough.
‘What happened is on one or more occasions it’s a false positive test, or he actually had the dead virus that is carrying forward.’
He added: ‘I’m telling you right now, you can’t get it twice.’
Multiple people have had COVID twice.